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bush and dick cheney were doing behind-the-scenes. peter baker is the author of "days of fire, bush and cheney in the white house" and i spoke to him earlier here in studio 1. welcome. was your portrait of dick cheney in this book different than the public image he had for eight years? >> i think it is. the public image was cartoonish at times. two dimensional. he was a puppet master. the sinister force running things. like all myths there was some truth. he was an influential vice president. very powerful, no doubt tarynly years. it's a relationship that was much more dynamic and changed over time. >> it sounds like although you've been too polite to say so an indictment of the media if the image of the vice president of the united states was cartoonish and two dimensional. >> that's the nature of media today to some extent. you take a reality and exaggerate and then it gets to late night circuit where it becomes further exaggerated and becomes a larger societal -- >> i'm sure our viewers would say the press was biassed against chene
bush and dick cheney were doing behind-the-scenes. peter baker is the author of "days of fire, bush and cheney in the white house" and i spoke to him earlier here in studio 1. welcome. was your portrait of dick cheney in this book different than the public image he had for eight years? >> i think it is. the public image was cartoonish at times. two dimensional. he was a puppet master. the sinister force running things. like all myths there was some truth. he was an influential...
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>> i would say it's a backhanded compliment but i don't agree with dick cheney on many things but in this case i do. i don't think chris christie really has a shot, and not because he's too moderate. i just don't think the christie schtick will play well in other states, such as texas. in the primary here in texas, christie is not going to play well. so in this case i to agree with cheney. >> but doesn't he, steve, have time to change or enhance his image on the national stage as the chair of the rga and that puts him in states around the country and in people's living rooms and on their phones and in different venues where they can learn about the type of guy chris christie is and come to know him differently? >> it's possible. i think that the words we heard from dick cheney this morning are probably going to be prominently played over and over again in attack ads throughout the 2016 cycle and there's going to be a lot of problems. i think victoria is absolutely right. when you look back over the course of the last several years it's going to be hard for christie to walk away from
>> i would say it's a backhanded compliment but i don't agree with dick cheney on many things but in this case i do. i don't think chris christie really has a shot, and not because he's too moderate. i just don't think the christie schtick will play well in other states, such as texas. in the primary here in texas, christie is not going to play well. so in this case i to agree with cheney. >> but doesn't he, steve, have time to change or enhance his image on the national stage as...
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. >> this came up in 2000 when dick cheney was nominated to be the vice presidential candidate. and he was asked on this program by tim russert about opposing even a resolution to call for mandela's being freed. this is what cheney said then. >> well, certainly i would have loved to have nelson mandela released. i don't know anybody who was sffor keeping him in prison. again, this was a resolution of the american congress, so it wasn't as though if we passed it he was going to be let out of prison. it had another provision. it required the recognition of the anc, which at the time advocated violence in south africa. my recollection is the reagan administration opposed it and i supported the administration. >> tom? >> everything was happening at warp speed. that's one of the things you have to remember. we were going from the pitch cold war to these extraordinary changes that were going on not just behind the soviet union but in the satellite states as well. then in south africa, you had the additional pressure, as reverend sharpton points out, that grew really in a generational
. >> this came up in 2000 when dick cheney was nominated to be the vice presidential candidate. and he was asked on this program by tim russert about opposing even a resolution to call for mandela's being freed. this is what cheney said then. >> well, certainly i would have loved to have nelson mandela released. i don't know anybody who was sffor keeping him in prison. again, this was a resolution of the american congress, so it wasn't as though if we passed it he was going to be...
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>> yeah, that dick cheney came out. talk about fuelling the fire of this whole thing. >> no, what i loved about that, chris, was the way that cheney, the way in which he said it, he said there was an attack launched. it sounded like missile strikes in iraq. and that -- those are the cheneys, those loveable cheney. >> and the loveable cheneys narrative, there was talk a month ago when this whole thing happened a month ago, did it help liz because it distanced her and would be popular with the conservative-based primary in wyoming. and this is not helpful to liz cheney. >> no, i don't think any of that is helpful to liz cheney because if you do want to focus on the family you want it to be -- if that is sort of your calling card you want it to be kind of a happy family story. and not this one that is sort of -- equal parts you know, shakespeare in a bad, off, off, off broadway play. so that is not good. the pac thing just astounds me, it absolutely astounds me if you want to talk about that. because i love the fact that t
>> yeah, that dick cheney came out. talk about fuelling the fire of this whole thing. >> no, what i loved about that, chris, was the way that cheney, the way in which he said it, he said there was an attack launched. it sounded like missile strikes in iraq. and that -- those are the cheneys, those loveable cheney. >> and the loveable cheneys narrative, there was talk a month ago when this whole thing happened a month ago, did it help liz because it distanced her and would be...
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including dick cheney. in fact, then-congressman cheney voted against sanctions for south africa at least ten times. during the '80s. but even years later he said he had no regrets. when cheney was running for vice president in 2000, he justified those votes by saying, quote, the african national congress was then viewed as a terrorist organization. i don't have any problems at all with the vote i cast 20 years ago. back then republicans like dick cheney and ronald reagan were on the wrong side of history and on issue after issue today. immigration, gay rights, health care, inequality. republicans are on the wrong side of history once again. joining me now is karen finney. thanks for being here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> karen, this isn't ancient history. as recently as 2003, the right wing national review magazine was blasting mandela for his, quote, vicious anti-americanism. and his, quote, praise for terrorists. do these conservatives think we've just forgotten what they've said about mandela ov
including dick cheney. in fact, then-congressman cheney voted against sanctions for south africa at least ten times. during the '80s. but even years later he said he had no regrets. when cheney was running for vice president in 2000, he justified those votes by saying, quote, the african national congress was then viewed as a terrorist organization. i don't have any problems at all with the vote i cast 20 years ago. back then republicans like dick cheney and ronald reagan were on the wrong side...
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let's forgive dick cheney. let's forgive these people. i think one of the fascinating things about nelson mandela, he wasn't a saint. he made a lot of mistakes. he readily admitted it. he said, i'm not a saint unless you think a saint is a sinner who gets up and tries again every time. he changed an entire country and a world in what he said. done through acts of humility. like the pope has done. authentic acts of humility. >> i think -- one of the great things about my life is that i got to live at the same time that he did. if you look at, like christ, he was everything you said. he was forgiving, flawed. everything that a human being is and everything that a great human being is. we should embrace all of it. more than that. you spend 27 years in jail. you forgive your jailers? that's a -- that's reading the new testament somewhere. >> walking the walk. >> that will have to be the last word. thank you all very much. >>> coming up, when nelson mandela walked out of prison after 27 years, ted koppel was there. that is our "sunday spotligh
let's forgive dick cheney. let's forgive these people. i think one of the fascinating things about nelson mandela, he wasn't a saint. he made a lot of mistakes. he readily admitted it. he said, i'm not a saint unless you think a saint is a sinner who gets up and tries again every time. he changed an entire country and a world in what he said. done through acts of humility. like the pope has done. authentic acts of humility. >> i think -- one of the great things about my life is that i got...
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now dick cheney may be powerless to stop a family feud. we'll have his reaction? >> and what tr the five keys to a longer life? >>> no matter how old you are you should be concerned about your health. once you hit 50 there are important steps to maintaining your health. five simple steps to take after 50. a family allergy and asthma care is here. she's about to turn 50. happy birthday in advance. >> thanks very much. >> so let's go through the five steps. first of all we know that knowledge is power. and we know we have to know our numbers. what are they? >> so, they are simple. they are your blood pressure, triglycerides and cholesterol. know them and take them often. >> but we don't pay a lot of attention to them. >> the point is knowledge is power. >> we also know it's important exeise. what do you say to people who want easy exercise? folks who don't want to join a health club. >> you can do it easy. it's 20 to 30 minutes of vigorous walking. and it does so much more than help out your heart. it tones your muscles. it's going to decrease your stress, improve y
now dick cheney may be powerless to stop a family feud. we'll have his reaction? >> and what tr the five keys to a longer life? >>> no matter how old you are you should be concerned about your health. once you hit 50 there are important steps to maintaining your health. five simple steps to take after 50. a family allergy and asthma care is here. she's about to turn 50. happy birthday in advance. >> thanks very much. >> so let's go through the five steps. first of all...
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i like dick cheney a lot. >> so do i. but that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> -- last 30 years so i'm the wrong guy to ask that question. i would love to have a party where dick cheney's an elder statesman and colin powell's an elder statesman. and you have -- that's what we had when he won 49 states. we had both wings of the republican party, and i love listening to dick cheney. >> he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> a little more of colin powell. >> i think that if the party did that, that it would help the party. but when you have a party of stockman and cornyn, it only makes me get the popcorn out and smile. >> and you need someone like him to be clear and positive. >> did you not see the democrats yesterday? fighting like bobcats on this set. >> i missed that. >> we were talking about a story about democratic infighting and then they denied there's democratic fighting and then howard dean and steve ratner fought like bobcats. >> i don't understand. you won't let me speak because you kn
i like dick cheney a lot. >> so do i. but that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> -- last 30 years so i'm the wrong guy to ask that question. i would love to have a party where dick cheney's an elder statesman and colin powell's an elder statesman. and you have -- that's what we had when he won 49 states. we had both wings of the republican party, and i love listening to dick cheney. >> he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> a little more of...
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cheney. he voted against the measure repeatedly that year. and stuck to that position. in 2000 he said he had no regrets opposing the measure. >>> last night, fox television bill o'reilly and rick santorum took a weirdly different approach in assessing nelson mandela's legacy. >> i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. >> yeah. >> he was a communist. all right? but he was a great man. what he did for his people was stunning. the sacrifices that he made. he could have repudiated and got out of that prison. he wouldn't do it. he was a great man. but he was a communist. >> you're right. i mean, what he was advocating for was not necessarily the right answer, but he was fighting against some great injustice. i would make the argument we have a great injustice going on right now in this country with an ever-increasing size of government that is taking over and controlling people's lives. and obama care is front and center in that. >> what o'reilly said there is 180 from wh
cheney. he voted against the measure repeatedly that year. and stuck to that position. in 2000 he said he had no regrets opposing the measure. >>> last night, fox television bill o'reilly and rick santorum took a weirdly different approach in assessing nelson mandela's legacy. >> i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. >> yeah. >> he was a communist. all right? but he was a great man. what he did for his people was stunning. the sacrifices...
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. >> this came up in 2000 when dick cheney was nominated to be the vice presidential candidate. and he was asked on this program by tim russert about opposing even a resolution to call for mandela's being freed. this is what cheney said then. >> well, certainly i would have loved to have nelson mandela released. i don't know anybody who was for keeping him in prison. again, this was a resolution of the u.s. congress, so it wasn't as though if we passed it he was going to be let out of prison. it had another provision. it required the recognition of the anc, which at the time advocated violence in south africa. my recollection is the reagan administration opposed it and i supported the administration. >> tom? >> everything was happening at warp speed. that's one of the things you have to remember. we were going from the pitch cold war to these extraordinary changes that were going on not just behind the soviet union but in the satellite states as well. then in south africa, you had the additional pressure, as reverend sharpton points out, that grew really in a generational way in
. >> this came up in 2000 when dick cheney was nominated to be the vice presidential candidate. and he was asked on this program by tim russert about opposing even a resolution to call for mandela's being freed. this is what cheney said then. >> well, certainly i would have loved to have nelson mandela released. i don't know anybody who was for keeping him in prison. again, this was a resolution of the u.s. congress, so it wasn't as though if we passed it he was going to be let out...
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. >> you're damn right dick cheney's heart is a political football. we ought to rip it out, kick it around and stuff it back in him. i'm glad he didn't tip over. he's the new poster child for health care in this country. he's an enemy of the country in my opinion, dick cheney is. he's an enemy of the country. lord, take him to the promised land, will you? i don't wish the guy goes to hell. i just want him out of here. do you know what they are talking about? like this right wing slut, laura ing graham? yeah, she's a talk slut. >> he thinks god ordained and supports obama care. built on lies. >> what do they have in common, all these people? they believe in personal insults against conservatives. they lie with impunity and say things like somebody should defecate in sarah palin's mouth. do you know something? nobody at the top of nbc has yet to apologize for that statement. bill griffin, it's been 20 dais and you haven't apologized. >> are you proud of that? brian williams, tom brokaw? are you proud? coming up, the next legal challenge for obama care.
. >> you're damn right dick cheney's heart is a political football. we ought to rip it out, kick it around and stuff it back in him. i'm glad he didn't tip over. he's the new poster child for health care in this country. he's an enemy of the country in my opinion, dick cheney is. he's an enemy of the country. lord, take him to the promised land, will you? i don't wish the guy goes to hell. i just want him out of here. do you know what they are talking about? like this right wing slut,...
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cheney voted against a resolution to release nelson mandela so this was all happening around the world. >> right. i think peter's point that south africa's transition was facilitated by the end of the cold war is extremely important. but it's also extremely important to remember that in the 1980s, a global anti-apartheid movement arose during the cold war in which people in america and europe said we're not going to see south africa in purely cold arrest terms. we're not going to accept ronald reagan's -- the anc because we called ate communist organization. i think the willingness to look at south africa beyond cold arrest terms even when the cold war was raging in the neigh years. >> when you talked to nelson mandela, did you find that he -- had he forgiven the west for, you know, having mostly for the most part sided against the anc? >> i think in my conversations with him, he forgive the west, yes, and he realized that a huge amount of learnings we can pick up from western leaders and in deed we did pick up a huge amount of learnings. i think for example, you remember quite well wh
cheney voted against a resolution to release nelson mandela so this was all happening around the world. >> right. i think peter's point that south africa's transition was facilitated by the end of the cold war is extremely important. but it's also extremely important to remember that in the 1980s, a global anti-apartheid movement arose during the cold war in which people in america and europe said we're not going to see south africa in purely cold arrest terms. we're not going to accept...
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but of those who put themselves on the wrong side of history was future vice president dick cheney. he voted against the measure repeatedly that year. in 2000 he said he had no regrets opposing the measure. >>> last night, fox television bill o'reilly and rick santorum took a weirdly different approach in assessing nelson mandela's legacy. >> i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. >> yeah. >> he was a communist. all right? but he was a great man. what he did for his people was stunning. the sacrifices that he made. he could have repudiated and got out of that prison. he wouldn't do it. he was a great man. but he was a communist. >> you're right. i mean, what he was advocating for was not necessarily the right answer, but he was fighting against some great injustice. i would make the argument we have a great injustice going on right now in this country with an ever-increasing size of government that is taking over and controlling people's lives. and obama care is front and center in that. >> what o'reilly said there is 180 from what others said as the first
but of those who put themselves on the wrong side of history was future vice president dick cheney. he voted against the measure repeatedly that year. in 2000 he said he had no regrets opposing the measure. >>> last night, fox television bill o'reilly and rick santorum took a weirdly different approach in assessing nelson mandela's legacy. >> i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. >> yeah. >> he was a communist. all right? but he was a great...
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the reagan administration branded the anc a terrorist group and dick cheney voted against a resolution to release nelson mandela. so this was all happening around the world. >> right. i think peter godwin's point that south africa's transition was facile traitated by the end the cold what are is extremely important but it's important to remember in the 1980s a lobl anti-apartheid movement arose during the cold war in which people in america said we're not going to see south africa in purely cold war terms. we're not going to sep reagan's pacic envision that the apartheid regime is on the part of the free world because it's anti-communist and the anc, they are on the side of unfreedom. i think the willingness to look at south africa beyond cold war terms when when the cold war was raging was critically important to the transition in south africa. >> when you talked with nelson mandela, did you find that he -- had he forgiven the west for, you know, having mostly for the most part sided against the anc? >> i think in my conversations with him, he forgave the west, and he realized there's
the reagan administration branded the anc a terrorist group and dick cheney voted against a resolution to release nelson mandela. so this was all happening around the world. >> right. i think peter godwin's point that south africa's transition was facile traitated by the end the cold what are is extremely important but it's important to remember in the 1980s a lobl anti-apartheid movement arose during the cold war in which people in america said we're not going to see south africa in...
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cheney. even after mandela was freed from prison and elected president of south africa in 1994, u.s. leaders from frequently suspicious of him. during the clinton administration mandela praised cuba's communist dictator fidel castro and referred to libyan dictator muammar qaddafi as a friend. president bush said the iraq war was about liberation. mandela said all bush wanted was iraqi oil. now the flags in washington have been lowered to half-staff. the icon, whose legacy was at times considered a subversive threat. >> u.s. administration always seemed tread very carefully with mandela. and many officials who served as president throughout the years are even more delicate saying this is not the time to r relitigate those old conflicts. >> for more on the mood in south africa let's go to my colleague, mike hannah. he is in soweto, and it's great to sue you. how would you describe the mood on that street in that neighborhood this evening? >> well, it's a very strange mixture, tony. it's a deep
cheney. even after mandela was freed from prison and elected president of south africa in 1994, u.s. leaders from frequently suspicious of him. during the clinton administration mandela praised cuba's communist dictator fidel castro and referred to libyan dictator muammar qaddafi as a friend. president bush said the iraq war was about liberation. mandela said all bush wanted was iraqi oil. now the flags in washington have been lowered to half-staff. the icon, whose legacy was at times...
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in fact, four vice presidents, dick cheney when he was a congressman voted against the anti-apartheid act. so what brought about a change in the u.s. to support sanctions and to support mandela? >> well, what brought about a change was, you know, not only did we have legislators like myself around the country, they were all checked and, you know, they became a part of the work of the anc, but distilled in us and the young people became alive on the campuses and we brought that story to this country and our people to understand what it was all about. at that time you are absolutely right, reagan and you know the republicans and the more conservative elements of our country were aligned with boudelaisse. he was someone not support iivef apartheid and what nelson mandela was doing. so we had to overcome all that. for years i sent out information to the members of the dachlt state legislature every day to educate them on what was happening in south africa we finally went to jail and marched in front of the south african consulate on a thanksgiving day and we set in and refused to lead. so
in fact, four vice presidents, dick cheney when he was a congressman voted against the anti-apartheid act. so what brought about a change in the u.s. to support sanctions and to support mandela? >> well, what brought about a change was, you know, not only did we have legislators like myself around the country, they were all checked and, you know, they became a part of the work of the anc, but distilled in us and the young people became alive on the campuses and we brought that story to...
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listen to former vice president dick cheney this morning -- just this morning on fox. listen to this. >> the same people that brought us you can keep your insurance if you want are telling us they've got a great deal in iran with respect to their nuclear program. i don't believe it. >> i mean, what does iran have to do with health care? what is he talking about? >> this man wants to take money away from americans for health care and put it into one more unnecessary law. and do you know how outrageous that is? not only was he responsible for lying us into the iraq war, he has a taxpayer funded new heart. our tax dollars have kept him alive to the tune of millions of dollars over the years, but he's mocking the president for covering more americans and also mocking him for avoiding war. i would say that new heart is actually not working very well. >> well, it's all about stopping the president. i mean, the gop's opposition to health care is all about that. i mean, texas attorney general greg abbott said i go into the office, sue barack obama, and then i go home. this is
listen to former vice president dick cheney this morning -- just this morning on fox. listen to this. >> the same people that brought us you can keep your insurance if you want are telling us they've got a great deal in iran with respect to their nuclear program. i don't believe it. >> i mean, what does iran have to do with health care? what is he talking about? >> this man wants to take money away from americans for health care and put it into one more unnecessary law. and do...
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take a listen to former vice president dick cheney, try to thread that needle. take a listen. >> i don't think we ought to be in the business where we're out there condemning republicans who get elected to public office. >> what about challenging them? because your daughter is. >> my daughter is challenged. and i'm a strong supporter. i do believe we need a new generation of leaders. i think part of our problem is we get into the position where all we're doing is supporting the status quo in terms of the party, i think we're in trouble. >> so karen, that's like a real oops moment, because he's like, we shouldn't be doing this. what about your family doing this. oh, yeah. that's cool. >> well, i mean, what i would -- yes, he was threading the needle there. but i think it's one thing to say you're going to challenge someone. it's another thing to say when you get to using -- and i apologize ahead of time to the rhinos. but when you're essentially attacking what is supposed to be the core value system of the party, i think that's when it cuts a lot deeper. and the
take a listen to former vice president dick cheney, try to thread that needle. take a listen. >> i don't think we ought to be in the business where we're out there condemning republicans who get elected to public office. >> what about challenging them? because your daughter is. >> my daughter is challenged. and i'm a strong supporter. i do believe we need a new generation of leaders. i think part of our problem is we get into the position where all we're doing is supporting...
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republican from wyoming dick cheney was one of them. 27 republicans voted to sustain them. babcock ran of mississippi. there were plenty of votes. sanctions did go into effect. but for some on the right, nelson mandela remained a punching bag. >> we didn't meet with one representative of the african national congress. the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which has orchestrated and financed by the soviet union. willie mandela, winnie mandela the wife of mandela has boasted we have the tears, we have the gasoline and we have the matches. that's the way these folks orchestrated by the soviet union act and the new york times and the washington post and cbs and abc and nbc and the rest of the big media and a liberal politician, mr. kennedy and the rest that, i say we got to deal with these folk. we got to meet with them. i say, be loaloney. >> it's understandably maddening right now. you want to think back to all of that, how many leaders in this country dragged their feet and made excuses in the face of south africa's apartheid crisis. it's important to remember, because it w
republican from wyoming dick cheney was one of them. 27 republicans voted to sustain them. babcock ran of mississippi. there were plenty of votes. sanctions did go into effect. but for some on the right, nelson mandela remained a punching bag. >> we didn't meet with one representative of the african national congress. the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which has orchestrated and financed by the soviet union. willie mandela, winnie mandela the wife of mandela has boasted we have the...
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. >> donald trump on tomorrow's show, dick cheney, and mario lopez. we'll see you, everyone. >> that's a show. >>> and a fox extreme weather alert this morning. a deadly winter storm blasting western and southern states with frigid temperatures, snow, rain, sleet, and ice. you name it, they're getting it. the cold weather chaos. leaving icy roads and power outages. stretching from texas to the rockies, temperatures expected to reach only about 10 degrees today. in much of the midwest. the storms also causing massive flight cancellations across our country, as travel conditions are worsening by the hour, both in the air and on the roads. now, the storm is moving east. it's causing big problems all along the way, and we're going to bring you a full
. >> donald trump on tomorrow's show, dick cheney, and mario lopez. we'll see you, everyone. >> that's a show. >>> and a fox extreme weather alert this morning. a deadly winter storm blasting western and southern states with frigid temperatures, snow, rain, sleet, and ice. you name it, they're getting it. the cold weather chaos. leaving icy roads and power outages. stretching from texas to the rockies, temperatures expected to reach only about 10 degrees today. in much of...